Saturday, September 13, 2025
Charlie Kirk
I have had quite the week, with a lot to do at work. I've already mentioned two of my projects -- the weeding of our poetry and literature section, and cleaning up and organizing the board games in the Lower School. There was more of that, plus daily routines, putting up a new display and pulling a cart of books for an upcoming class. Now, finally, the old literature books have been stamped and boxed for charity, the board games are about half organized, and as of yesterday evening, everything was where it belonged -- for the moment!
And then there's been this terrible news about Charlie Kirk. I obviously disagreed with Kirk on many issues, based on what I've read and seen of his public remarks. But I didn't follow him closely, and of course I would not wish violence upon him for merely expressing his opinions. If we can't have a conversation, if we can't exchange opposing views, we're in a dark place as a society.
David French wrote an interesting column in the Times that emphasized this dangerous ground. "One of the worst elements of modern political discourse is that we tend to learn about our opponents entirely through the words and actions we find offensive..." French wrote. "We don’t ever see the points of agreement. We rarely see the person outside his political context. Post by post, our hearts harden until some people reach a point where they will celebrate the deaths of people they’ve grown to despise."
I often see this in comments on right-wing news sites, where Democrats are vilified and continually threatened with violence as traitors, satanists and communists. I'm sure it happens on left-wing sites too, though commenters on the mainstream news sites I read tend to be pretty reserved.
The internet lends itself to this kind of dehumanization, this blind outrage, because we don't have extended, thoughtful exchanges where we're looking into the eyes of our opponents and seeing them as a whole person. They're just obnoxious anonymous trolls, popping in for quick sniping comments, the snarkier the better. Modern social media fosters this climate.
We all have the same questions -- what prompted Kirk's assassin to act as he did? What stirred him so much that he felt killing Kirk was justified? I'm stating the obvious, but even for a person worried about the political trajectory of the USA and many of our western democracies -- as I am -- this was an extreme act. And the alleged perpetrator seems like such a nice boy, with a promising future. So many questions, but the main one is Why?
Again, I'm stating the obvious, but killing a single person like Kirk achieves nothing. In fact, it's counterproductive, because your foe is elevated and becomes a martyr. I've already seen right-wingers likening Kirk to Martin Luther King Jr., which I find galling but the comparison is out there. You can't kill an idea. This is the same mistake governments make when they try to kill individual terrorists, even if they are powerful leaders and organizers -- there's always another one ready to step up and take the place of the fallen, because the foe isn't a person, it's an idea, a philosophy. Kirk and his fellow leaders aren't the enemy. Right-wing, evangelical Christian nationalism and extreme conservatism are what's dangerous.
French concluded his column with a quote by Abraham Lincoln spoken on the eve of the Civil War: "I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection."
It can be difficult to feel any affection for our political opponents in this day and age, but I think we have to try. It's the "turn-the-other-cheek" message that many of us were raised with. Otherwise, where are we headed?
(Photo: An apartment building reflected in a puddle on the street, yesterday.)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Personally, I think that the advent of social media has been a disaster in many respects. The word limit in Twitter/X mitigates against any extended discourse, leading to the sniping that you refer to. And the anonymity also doesn't help - individuals write things that they would never say face-to-face.
ReplyDeleteWell they seem to have caught someone, Tyler Robinson for the shooting. Saw a neighbour of the family saying what a quiet lad Tyler is. So probably you can blame social media for why he did it. The 'violence' of words is of course the weapon that makes people do stupid things.
ReplyDeleteWhat was frightening was that immediately, this was branded as a professional hit job orchestrated by the left. There were calls to take up arms. One clip with over 750,000 views called for democrats to be taken out, "every last one". The president of the United States is saying that democrats hate America. All a rush to judgement. He was not a professional. He was not transgendered. He was a quiet kid from a MAGA family...yet for a time he was the face of "the left".
DeleteEven here, in our little backwater, social media is rife with wicked, evil and hateful comments. It is quite disturbing that these are people that I probably see in the street every day.
ReplyDeletePlenty of food for thought there. Thank you for articulating your response to the Kirk killing so lucidly Steve. Did Tyler Robinson truly imagine that he could get away with the assassination? If he did, he must have less intelligence than a wooden puppet. He has blighted the lives of his parents and brothers as well as the cause of democracy and now he must stew in jail cells until his inevitable execution - years from now. What a fool!
ReplyDeleteWhat a great post today :) Charlie Kirk's message was to keep talking because it's when people, communities and nations stop talking/debating/acknowledging the views of others that violence begins. His message must never be lost.
ReplyDeleteJaw-jaw, not war-war
DeleteYou make an excellent point, turn the other cheek, listen to your opponent, find the good. Following blindly like sheep is not the answer.
ReplyDeleteSo well said you have expressed how I feel and probably lots of other people so succinctly. The question why this young man thought killing someone he did not agree with would be an answer to the problem will probably never be answered. So much hate and anger, so many lives ruined. It is a tragedy. She H
ReplyDeleteKirk was hateful and cruel and did a great deal of damage, but I agree that killing him, aside from being immoral, has the opposite affect. He’s already become a martyr and the Orange Menace and his minions are using him to stir up even more hate. More terrible times ahead.
ReplyDeleteOf course he was expressing his opinions. And of course he didn't deserve to die for them. But also very obvious that his entire platform was made to radicalize, especially young white men. The normalizing of this man is really something to see. And world leaders commenting on him specifically? And the fact his killer is a MAGA-loving white boy? South Park couldn't even write this.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Will and others about the pernicious effects of social media. Anyone can now say anything they want for everyone to see, without any restraint at all. I mentioned on another blog that at one time even things as innocuous as Playboy and Private Eye were not stocked by WH Smiths as going too far, in effect censorship. But the money involved would not now let that happen, although perhaps it should.
ReplyDeleteI just saw stats of threats of violence and interestingly enough, or not, they have gone up when Cankles runs for office or when Cankles is in office.
ReplyDeleteAs for Kirk, I don't like the idea of being gunned down for your words, but he made a living off of spreading hate, and suggesting LGBTQ+ person be put to death or that trans people are the mass shooters.
You live in hate you most likely will die that way.
Except that the right-wing faction in Jolly ol' England is rallying for the dead Charlie Kirk.
ReplyDeleteMartyrdom is dangerous in terms of motivating retribution and his status immediately bolted up amongst the right wing. Certainly I agree with others on social media as an element toward his radicalization. No one deserves to die for this. But as Elle said, much of his platform was designed to radicalize toward the right. No excuse for assassination but he wasn't a golden-haired boy. I think what bothers me most is the hypocrisy on the right. It isn't as though the right hasn't taken out judges, a Minnesota rep (with a hit list), Paul Pilosi and others. And yet those were rarely mentioned by the right with any sense of empathy or compassion. Our world has become a very dark place and I think it will become more so in coming months.
ReplyDeleteBy far, this is the best post I have read on this subject and I am in absolute agreement. If I had one wish for people using social media who wish to comment on a political post, it would be to think about how you would feel if someone posted a similarly veined comment about your beliefs. If it would raise your hackles, consider not posting it and adding to the problem we find ourselves in today.
ReplyDeleteHateful comments aren't just an issue with political posts, they extend to many other areas as well. It's hard to find a social media post these days where anonymous trolls don't vent their anger.
DeleteSocial media has made it easy to spread hate. How do we stop the lies and hate that is spewing from the current administration?
ReplyDeleteIt seems that young, white men are the most dangerous of Americans, not the illegal immigrants as trump asserts.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe in murder, although I think there are circumstances that I can understand, revenge killing, a crime of passion, I can understand that. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it. Killing someone because their beliefs are different than yours, I don't understand that.
Charlie Kirk held some truly detestable beliefs, the opposite of what I believe, but he did not deserve to die for those beliefs. The sad irony is that the very ideas he embraced, the 2nd amendment, is partially responsible for his death. He said that some people will die because of the 2nd amendment and he was right.
There there have been 244 gun related deaths in the past week in the US, no public outpouring of grief. The US government sends thoughts and prayers to the families of those killed and does nothing to prevent those deaths.
It boggles the mind that the US allows this to continue. The 2nd amendment allows an armed militia to defend themselves against a federal army, again the irony is that trump is sending in federal troops to cities he disagrees with. I could go on but apparently Jack sees the need to keep interuppting me.
Charlie Kirk was a dangerous man even more so because he cultivated an image of reasonableness and calm debate. But there was no debate that would sway Kirk from his positions because they came from his religious convictions. Debate was a sham, there were no facts anyone could present that would convince him of the wrongness of his vision for this country and culture. He was a Dominionist. For all the calmness he tried to project his words and intent were hateful and cruel. He was just fine with children, people, being killed by the gun as the price to pay for unfettered access and possession of whatever gun you wanted. Did he deserve to die? Maybe. He reaped what he sowed.
ReplyDeleteAs for this political violence not being what we are, what this country stands for, was built on. It most certainly is. Slavery, political genocide of the First Nations, black communities wiped out during Jim Crow, political assassinations including 4 presidents and unsuccessful attempts on other presidents, MLK, Bobby Kennedy, Gabby Giffords who survived her shot to the head, and the more recent attacks, murders, attempted kidnappings of political figures and their families. It is worse now because of the current gun culture and the violent rhetoric from the right wing but it's always been a part of who we are as a nation.
Yep, Ellen, pulling a trigger is so easy.
DeleteThe individual held and being fully investigated is only 22 years old. How does someone that young become so enraged to want to pick up a gun and murder someone? Was he part of a group and radicalized?
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with most of what CK stood for, but he should not have lost his life.
That said, the news and media often fuels distrust and division.
The murder did not disturb me. The murderer also does not disrturb me, what lies beneath is most disturbing as this country launches full board into Authoritarian fascism. there will be many more atrocious events, no one can prepare for what is to come . The murder of charlie is very much a spark igniting radicals, fully supported by the government and so called president.
ReplyDeleteThis is such a complex subject. I just read a post on FB a friend of mine had shared about how true Christians (and my friend is one) must remember to do as Jesus directed and love our neighbors, turn the other cheek, and so forth.
ReplyDeleteI find myself unable to do this. People like Charlie Kirk spew anger which leads to violence against many of the people I love the most. How can I begin to even pretend to love the messenger of such hate? An in-law relative of mine, upon the death of James Dobson, posted on FB a statement that read something to the effect that when Dobson reached the pearly gates, god would say to him, "Welcome, good and faithful son." How can I begin to even pretend to love someone who believes that man was anything but cruel and hateful? Who believes in a god that would use Dobson as the messenger of such vitriol. And I know this woman is a kind woman. A loving wife and mother and grandmother. But what does she really think about my own children whom Dobson would proclaim as evil and sinful?
I am not a good enough person to accept any of this as something I can ignore. I can keep my thoughts to myself when I am with her but what I'd really like to do is to respond to her post, asking her if she truly believes what Dobson said about the discipling of children, about the LGBTA+ people I know and love? I won't. But I want to and it could be so easily done via Facebook. There is part of me that says she herself has used hate speech, simply in her obvious belief in Dobson's messages although of course she would deny that. And perhaps that is the best I can do- simply not respond.
Is that turning the other cheek? I don't know. I am having a very hard time with all of this, including feeling any real sorrow about Kirk's death. It should not have happened. That I can agree with.
Whenever something like this happens, we have to remember that initial information is almost always wrong. It's beginning to emerge that the young man may be a follower of Nick Fuentes who feuded with Kirk because he found Kirk to be too far to the LEFT. This may not be fully accurate either. Hopefully we will learn more. But accuracy unfortunately may not matter.
ReplyDeleteCharlie's opinions about women, gay people, minorities and anyone not like him was not political opinion. It was hate speech.
ReplyDeleteIn some cases it's dangerous to our rights and our own lives to turn the other cheek. I don't believe that anyone should die for his/her beliefs though. From what I'm hearing, the shooter was from a conservative LDS family who loved Trump and guns but that he was more affiliated with Nick Fuentes. Who hated Charlie Kirk because he wasn't white supremacist enough.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I love your photo today! There is a certain moodiness to it.
ReplyDeleteYour comments today are beautifully said and thanks for the link to David French's article. I've read a lot of opinion pieces over the past few days but I missed that one. You and many of the other people who have brought it up are right about social media. It has been poisoning our society since it came on the scene. I still remember when I decided to close my Facebook account about 12 years ago because I was seeing things that were toxic and I didn't to be a part of it.
My first feeling when I heard the news about Kirk was horror. I knew that the extremists on both sides would be charging ahead and fueling the fire in the heart of some other idealist with a gun. The mental health of our nation is dangling by a thread.
Although I certainly don't condone murder, even Kirk's, I find I don't feel anything about him. I think I must be worn out from all the hate speech he and his ilk have spewed.
ReplyDeleteI mean I don't feel anything about his murder.
DeleteYou're absolutely right about social media, Steve. Say what you think in 25 words or less and angry people are going to come up with angry words. I miss the days of (almost) everyone having the newspaper delivered and taking the time to read it.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Janie
Google "groyper" and "Pepe the Frog." These are the people that shooter identified with. They are the far-right who viewed Kirk as a sell out. He was a sell out, his schtick was to talk over people, get clicks and generate content. I but he's not a net loss to society.
ReplyDeleteI like the question you leave us with at the end. We have to put up with some negativism but how much. Obviously it's gone too far and there's no indication of any change.
ReplyDelete